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So Cal Broncos Calico 2025
- Thread starter ntsqd
- Start date
Added to Calendar: 01/17/25, 01/18/25, 01/19/25
I haven't gotten that far yet. 8am would be good, not sure if we can actually pull that off. I'd say no later than 9am.
Pending getting clear of one obligation I am thinking to head out there on Thursday to look at some of the spots that have been problems in the past. Anyone interested is welcome to join me. It's about 3.25 hrs from here (E. Vta) to there and I plan to be leaving here pretty early. I may overnight out there if I find that I need to look over a lot more of it than expected.
Pending getting clear of one obligation I am thinking to head out there on Thursday to look at some of the spots that have been problems in the past. Anyone interested is welcome to join me. It's about 3.25 hrs from here (E. Vta) to there and I plan to be leaving here pretty early. I may overnight out there if I find that I need to look over a lot more of it than expected.
I could make it work on Sat anytime.
Felix 808
Growing Member
Good to go
BadSquatch
Huge Member
A lot of the Baofeng UV-5 based radios are dual band. Technically those are Ham radios and shouldn’t be used on GMRS because they aren’t Part 95 certified. But if they are locked most of them are easy to unlock. They do make some radios that are Part 95 and locked to GMRS. The popular Midland radios, on the other hand, are GMRS locked and can’t be unlocked to transmit on 2 meter which is the reason I ended up on GMRS on most of the runs I’ve been leading.
Some of the Ham radios, especially mobiles, are 2 meter and 70cm, but locked out of the GMRS freqs. For example my Icom 2730a was like that so I needed the MARS-CAP mod to unlocked transmit on GMRS freq. Again, that’s a FCC rules violation, but, hey no one here works for the FCC or is your Mom, so…
Some of the Ham radios, especially mobiles, are 2 meter and 70cm, but locked out of the GMRS freqs. For example my Icom 2730a was like that so I needed the MARS-CAP mod to unlocked transmit on GMRS freq. Again, that’s a FCC rules violation, but, hey no one here works for the FCC or is your Mom, so…
BigSkyOrville
FNG
As of today, planning on making it on Friday - Sunday with my 15 year old son. Looking forward to it!
SONNY G
Growing Member
SCB Brothers & Sisters, been trying to work it out to make it out to Calico. Right now plan on going up late Thursday early Friday morning. Deb might also be coming out for the trip. Deb does not go on the trails, are there any other girls that do not go on the trails and hangout at camp?
I know there are alot of different trails with different difficulties. Does anyone have a list of the trails with the level of difficulty they are?
Not sure how the onx offroading app/map works, but if it is possible to post the routes you have and able to cut and paste into another device, can you also post those? My cousin is planning on coming down from Arizona to join and he uses the onx offroading.
Looking forward to hanging out with the group again, it's been way too long!
Sonny
LA/OC
'74 Bronco- MY GURL
I know there are alot of different trails with different difficulties. Does anyone have a list of the trails with the level of difficulty they are?
Not sure how the onx offroading app/map works, but if it is possible to post the routes you have and able to cut and paste into another device, can you also post those? My cousin is planning on coming down from Arizona to join and he uses the onx offroading.
Looking forward to hanging out with the group again, it's been way too long!
Sonny
LA/OC
'74 Bronco- MY GURL
Sonny, there are the two canyons, Doran and Odessa, that have the more extreme technical spots in them. There are other spots that are technical, but not to the level of those two canyons.
I use Gaia for occasional reference, but don't have any routes plotted. FWIW Gaia's map of the area does not include all of the trails in use. No idea if OnX's does or not.
Some pics from my recon run this last Friday;
Bismarck Complex, top of Doran Canyon:
Main flat in Mule Canyon, looking up Mule Canyon:
From the same location looking down Mule Canyon at Camp Rock:
I use Gaia for occasional reference, but don't have any routes plotted. FWIW Gaia's map of the area does not include all of the trails in use. No idea if OnX's does or not.
Some pics from my recon run this last Friday;
Bismarck Complex, top of Doran Canyon:
Main flat in Mule Canyon, looking up Mule Canyon:
From the same location looking down Mule Canyon at Camp Rock:
Sonny, I just looked at ONX and it shows some of the navigable trails on the base map, but the only pre-loaded, named routes they have are:
Phillips Loop - Shows the loop from Ghost Town Road starting up Mule Canyon then turning up Phillips, then where you come out of Phillips on the edge of Odessa, the loop turns back toward Mule Canyon and rejoins Mule a short distance up from the Phillips/Mule Y at Camp Rock. This is a mostly easy route with one Medium challenge in Phillips Canyon just past the turnoff to Kramers Arch.
Doran-Odessa Loop - This one tracks the route up Odessa Canyon from Ghost Town Road, and you take either Doran or Odessa up, crossover at Bismark/Sweetwater Spring, then back down the other. Both of these canyons are rated difficult, even if you use the bypass to get around the Doran Gatekeeper.
Kramer Arch Side Trail - Not sure why they called it that, other than you can indeed do it on your way to Kramer's Arch if you want. But it's basically the crossover trail through the mud hills from lower Odessa to Phillips Canyon. It can be considered Easy but there are a couple of steep climbs with blind breakovers. Our group would normally use this trail to get from the camp spot over to run up Doran or Odessa, or to return to camp after running either of them in the downstream direction.
Wall Street Canyon Overlook - This one starts up Mule Canyon from Ghost Town Road, then turns up through Tin Can Alley to take easy roads over to Bismark then on to the Wall Street Overlook. The last leg of this route before dropping into upper Wall Street Canyon "might" be difficult or impassable. There's a narrow passage that a few years ago was filled with rock and sand from storm runoff, then a subsequent storm cut a deep narrow gulley through this overburden, making it impassable for normal 4X4s. But it *might* have been traversed and beaten back down somewhat in recent years, and perhaps passable now. If not, a little ways past Bismark you would have to detour up and around another route that is shown in ONX as "Wall Street Canyon Trail", which ironically crosses Wall Street Canyon but doesn't turn down it to go to the overlook. See my notes on it below:
Wall Street Canyon Trail - This one takes what looks like an easier route from Fort Irwin Road and ends at Bismark. So it shares part of the route with the above-mentioned Wall Street Canyon Overlook route. Like I said, the curious thing about this one is that it doesn't actually turn down Wall Street Canyon to go to the overlook. But it does cross Wall Street Canyon a short distance above the overlook, so you can use this route to guide you to the alternate route into Wall Street Canyon that I mentioned in the note above. Simply transition to that route at Bismark, and when you get to where it crosses Wall Street Canyon, simply turn downstream and go the short distance to the overlook. Keep an eye out on the left for the old stone cabin as you head down.
Calico's Shadow - Interesting name for this one. But it's basically the route from the Sweetwater Spring area up to the spot we call "Edge of the World", which Thom (@ntsqd ) showed us many years ago. If you want to go to Edge of the World, take the Wall Street Overlook route to Sweetwater Spring, then turn up this Calico's Shadow route just past the spring. Take Calico's Shadow upstream as far as it goes. Eventually the same road will transition into a route called "Power Line Trail" on the ONX map. Continue on this a little way further. On ONX you will see the north-south boundary for the BLM land. Just before there, take the dirt road off to the left (not shown as a road on ONX but you can see it in the satellite image) which takes you a short distance up to Edge of the World. This is a worthy destination with probably the best view in the Calicos. Return by the same route. You can also combine this with a trip to Wall Street Overlook. You'll see in ONX how to link the two together. IMPORTANT: Do NOT continue down "Power Line Trail" after the Edge of the World turnoff. The road continues a short distance to a saddle, which you can go check out if you want, and look down into the canyon where the trail continues. But turn around there if you don't want a hard core, very rocky and loose, very steep descent.
That's about it for the named routes that ONX has pre-loaded for the interior Calico Mountains area. It shows several more of the commonly used trails as navigable routes, but unfortunately there are quite a few routes we use regularly, that aren't shown on the ONX overlay map, though you can see them in the satellite image if you have that turned on as your underlay. The road from upper Phillips Canyon, along the rim of Odessa then dropping down into Odessa is an example of this. Likewise continuing up the opposite bank of Odessa and crossing over the front of the mountain to the rim of Doran Canyon as an alternate route to Bismark.
Send that info to your cousin so he can look at his ONX map and see what I'm talking about to familiarize himself with it before the trip.
Phillips Loop - Shows the loop from Ghost Town Road starting up Mule Canyon then turning up Phillips, then where you come out of Phillips on the edge of Odessa, the loop turns back toward Mule Canyon and rejoins Mule a short distance up from the Phillips/Mule Y at Camp Rock. This is a mostly easy route with one Medium challenge in Phillips Canyon just past the turnoff to Kramers Arch.
Doran-Odessa Loop - This one tracks the route up Odessa Canyon from Ghost Town Road, and you take either Doran or Odessa up, crossover at Bismark/Sweetwater Spring, then back down the other. Both of these canyons are rated difficult, even if you use the bypass to get around the Doran Gatekeeper.
Kramer Arch Side Trail - Not sure why they called it that, other than you can indeed do it on your way to Kramer's Arch if you want. But it's basically the crossover trail through the mud hills from lower Odessa to Phillips Canyon. It can be considered Easy but there are a couple of steep climbs with blind breakovers. Our group would normally use this trail to get from the camp spot over to run up Doran or Odessa, or to return to camp after running either of them in the downstream direction.
Wall Street Canyon Overlook - This one starts up Mule Canyon from Ghost Town Road, then turns up through Tin Can Alley to take easy roads over to Bismark then on to the Wall Street Overlook. The last leg of this route before dropping into upper Wall Street Canyon "might" be difficult or impassable. There's a narrow passage that a few years ago was filled with rock and sand from storm runoff, then a subsequent storm cut a deep narrow gulley through this overburden, making it impassable for normal 4X4s. But it *might* have been traversed and beaten back down somewhat in recent years, and perhaps passable now. If not, a little ways past Bismark you would have to detour up and around another route that is shown in ONX as "Wall Street Canyon Trail", which ironically crosses Wall Street Canyon but doesn't turn down it to go to the overlook. See my notes on it below:
Wall Street Canyon Trail - This one takes what looks like an easier route from Fort Irwin Road and ends at Bismark. So it shares part of the route with the above-mentioned Wall Street Canyon Overlook route. Like I said, the curious thing about this one is that it doesn't actually turn down Wall Street Canyon to go to the overlook. But it does cross Wall Street Canyon a short distance above the overlook, so you can use this route to guide you to the alternate route into Wall Street Canyon that I mentioned in the note above. Simply transition to that route at Bismark, and when you get to where it crosses Wall Street Canyon, simply turn downstream and go the short distance to the overlook. Keep an eye out on the left for the old stone cabin as you head down.
Calico's Shadow - Interesting name for this one. But it's basically the route from the Sweetwater Spring area up to the spot we call "Edge of the World", which Thom (@ntsqd ) showed us many years ago. If you want to go to Edge of the World, take the Wall Street Overlook route to Sweetwater Spring, then turn up this Calico's Shadow route just past the spring. Take Calico's Shadow upstream as far as it goes. Eventually the same road will transition into a route called "Power Line Trail" on the ONX map. Continue on this a little way further. On ONX you will see the north-south boundary for the BLM land. Just before there, take the dirt road off to the left (not shown as a road on ONX but you can see it in the satellite image) which takes you a short distance up to Edge of the World. This is a worthy destination with probably the best view in the Calicos. Return by the same route. You can also combine this with a trip to Wall Street Overlook. You'll see in ONX how to link the two together. IMPORTANT: Do NOT continue down "Power Line Trail" after the Edge of the World turnoff. The road continues a short distance to a saddle, which you can go check out if you want, and look down into the canyon where the trail continues. But turn around there if you don't want a hard core, very rocky and loose, very steep descent.
That's about it for the named routes that ONX has pre-loaded for the interior Calico Mountains area. It shows several more of the commonly used trails as navigable routes, but unfortunately there are quite a few routes we use regularly, that aren't shown on the ONX overlay map, though you can see them in the satellite image if you have that turned on as your underlay. The road from upper Phillips Canyon, along the rim of Odessa then dropping down into Odessa is an example of this. Likewise continuing up the opposite bank of Odessa and crossing over the front of the mountain to the rim of Doran Canyon as an alternate route to Bismark.
Send that info to your cousin so he can look at his ONX map and see what I'm talking about to familiarize himself with it before the trip.
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As of this past Friday the washed-out section between Bismarck and Wall St. Cyn on the "Wall St. Overlook" OnX route is not really passable by anything less than a full-on rock buggy. A narrow one at that. The technical spot in Wall St. Cyn below the Rock Cabin looks passable, but it's demanding enough that I didn't try it solo, so no idea of the condition of the rest of the route down to the Wall St. overlook.
"Power Line Trail" is known to me as "Roll-Over Gulch". I consider it passable only in the downhill direction, and then should only be tried by very experienced drivers in well built vehicles. Once you start down it, the sections of scree make it impossible, or nearly so, to go back up. Worse, the lower end dumps you into what those who know of it consider to be a nicely shielded camping spot. On the trip where the roll-over occurred those camped there had to move a tent to allow the vehicles to get past. It does NOT look like there is even the hint of a trail there.
"Power Line Trail" is known to me as "Roll-Over Gulch". I consider it passable only in the downhill direction, and then should only be tried by very experienced drivers in well built vehicles. Once you start down it, the sections of scree make it impossible, or nearly so, to go back up. Worse, the lower end dumps you into what those who know of it consider to be a nicely shielded camping spot. On the trip where the roll-over occurred those camped there had to move a tent to allow the vehicles to get past. It does NOT look like there is even the hint of a trail there.
Yeah I thought I remembered you had a name for that trail (Roll-Over Gulch). When we were there last year we went over the saddle and down the other side a little ways. We went down as far as the top of the narrows where it just becomes a steep talus pile in the crevice of the canyon. It looked gnarly, and I couldn't see around a slight bend a little ways down, and wasn't interested in climbing down (and hiking back up) to recon it. So we managed to get turned around and head back up to the saddle. I've been to the bottom of it from the Tin Can Alley side as well. Never saw anyone camping there but what's funny since you mention it, is there's a group of overlanders camping there in the satellite image underlay on the ONX map.
BTW, the Notarubicon YouTube channel did a video on that canyon a few years back. It was gnarly in that video but I'm sure its gotten even worse in the years since they were there.
Even if you run it all in low range I can't imagine OnX's "Phillips Loop" taking more than a couple of hours. The technical spot in Phillips wants great articulation or at least one TAD. Without one it could take a while. With one it's maybe 15 minutes for a driver of moderate skill.
How I remember it is that just below that slight bend there's an off-camber spot and if you're off the line there's a convenient rock on the high side to flop you on over.
Once you're into the canyon itself on Mule Cyn Rd. it will likely be slow going, but yes, you can drive a truck and trailer up to the camp area. Last Friday it wasn't too bad, but it can be a little rough right at the mouth of the canyon. Mule Cyn Rd. is actually a San Bern. County maintained road. Stay off the options to the right, but take the options to the left. When you get to a left option that goes up a side canyon you're at Camp Rock and you should be seeing Broncos by then.
How I remember it is that just below that slight bend there's an off-camber spot and if you're off the line there's a convenient rock on the high side to flop you on over.
Once you're into the canyon itself on Mule Cyn Rd. it will likely be slow going, but yes, you can drive a truck and trailer up to the camp area. Last Friday it wasn't too bad, but it can be a little rough right at the mouth of the canyon. Mule Cyn Rd. is actually a San Bern. County maintained road. Stay off the options to the right, but take the options to the left. When you get to a left option that goes up a side canyon you're at Camp Rock and you should be seeing Broncos by then.
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